A Conversation With A Friend In The UK

[alleydude]

I thought I would share an IM conversation I had with an internet friend from the UK about gun rights over there. Kind'a makes you want to stick up for your rights here before it gets the way it is overseas...

Shawty is a programming buddy I met on the Net, but we got on the subject of firearms. Here's some of the conversation"

Ken says:
You're ex-military?

Shawty sent 3/27/2009 7:17 AM:
yup
Ken says:
branch?

Shawty sent 3/27/2009 7:17 AM:
3 years, signal & communications officer, 50th battalion northumbrians

Ken says:
Nice.

Shawty sent 3/27/2009 7:19 AM:
iv'e done tours in bosnia and northern ireland m8

Shawty sent 3/27/2009 7:20 AM:
been over 10 years now since i left though

Shawty sent 3/27/2009 7:24 AM:
i was frontline signals, so used to be on active patrol

Ken says:
Wow

Shawty sent 3/27/2009 7:28 AM:
Iv'e got a bullet wound in my shoulder

Ken says:
REALLY?

Shawty sent 3/27/2009 7:26 AM:
and i somewtimes have to take strong painkillers, but nothing really serious

Shawty sent 3/27/2009 7:28 AM:
got that out in northern ireland, got caught in an ambush in green road belfast, during the height of a riot

Ken says:
Dang!

Shawty sent 3/27/2009 7:29 AM:
didn't go in deep, but still hurt like hell

Shawty sent 3/27/2009 7:31 AM:
iv'e took shots at real people m8 with a beretta 9mm, standard semi auto, and an SA80 issue 2

Ken says:
Wow

Ken says:
So you're not unfamiliar with firearms, then

Shawty sent 3/27/2009 7:33 AM:
in the UK it's illegal to keep a loaded firearm in the house... so i have the next best thing

Shawty sent 3/27/2009 7:33 AM:
i have a full size replica of a beretta, and it's loaded with blanks

Ken says:
Cool!

Shawty sent 3/27/2009 7:33 AM:
it's basicly just a big cap gun

Ken says:
Is it illegal to own weapons? or just loaded ones?

Shawty sent 3/27/2009 7:35 AM:
it's illegal to own wepons unless...
A)You have a real reason to have them, eg farmers, game keepers etc, and
B) They are locked in a big steel vault which only you have access too and
C)You have an appropriate licence and are registered as a gun owner with the authorities
Ken says:
Wow, I thought we had tough gun laws.

Shawty sent 3/27/2009 7:37 AM:
strictly speaking, it's also illegal to own & use anything that could also be mistaken for a full size wepon too

Shawty sent 3/27/2009 7:38 AM:
but iv'e proved it's worth before (the beretta replica).

Shawty sent 3/27/2009 7:38 AM:
when i lived in my last place, i heard some little fkers trying to steal the motor at 3 in the morning

Shawty sent 3/27/2009 7:39 AM:
so i crept out the back door, and waited at the end of the street, for the them coming past after the alarm scared them away

Shawty sent 3/27/2009 7:39 AM:
it's amazing how fast you can make some one P*** themselves when you pin them against the wall and point a gun at their temple

Shawty sent 3/27/2009 7:40 AM:
strangly enough, i never got any trouble ever again after that...

Ken says:
No pictures? I'd love to see the look on his face!

Shawty sent 3/27/2009 7:41 AM:
little bit hard to take a pic mate, when youv'e got your forarm accross someones windpipe, and hold of a berretta replica in the other..

Shawty sent 3/27/2009 7:42 AM:
but yes.. his face was a picture..

Shawty sent 3/27/2009 7:40 AM:
in USA, though, it's in the constitution to own a gun or somthing aint it?

Ken says:
So far it is. There are a lot of big-wigs trying to get it removed

Ken says:
I don't think the criminals will care if it's constitutional or not

Shawty sent 3/27/2009 7:42 AM:
neither do i m8. for all the laws over here are so strict, if you want to get a gun, and know where to look.

Shawty sent 3/27/2009 7:42 AM:
it's not difficult.

Ken says:
Is there much gun related violence over there?

Shawty sent 3/27/2009 7:43 AM:
in the citys it's quite high

Shawty sent 3/27/2009 7:43 AM:
manchester, london, liverpool etc

Ken says:
So lawful citizens can't defend themselves lawfully

Shawty sent 3/27/2009 7:43 AM:
nope not lawfully m8..

Ken says:
That stinks

Shawty sent 3/27/2009 7:43 AM:
and it tends more to be citys and areas where there's a lot of ethnics living

Shawty sent 3/27/2009 7:44 AM:
in fact of recent, it's getting really bad

Shawty sent 3/27/2009 7:44 AM:
i'll give you an example

Shawty sent 3/27/2009 7:44 AM:
a mate of mine who lives down in darlington.

Shawty sent 3/27/2009 7:44 AM:
same age as me, ex squadie

Shawty sent 3/27/2009 7:45 AM:
big lad, 6ft 3/6ft 4, got jumped by a group of 10 17 year olds

Shawty sent 3/27/2009 7:45 AM:
coming back from doing his shopping. Well as you can imagine, being bigs one thing but when there's 10 or so of them.. even the hardest is gonna fall

Shawty sent 3/27/2009 7:46 AM:
anyway he ended up with 3 broken ribs, a broken shoulder and various other scrapes

Ken says:
wow

Shawty sent 3/27/2009 7:47 AM:
anyway in the process of it all took a couple of them down with him

Ken says:
hope he took them down hard

Shawty sent 3/27/2009 7:48 AM:
anyway.. when he came out of hospital he was arrested and charged with assult & battery

Ken says:
no way

Shawty sent 3/27/2009 7:51 AM:
so yes, as i was saying, he got charged with assault and arrested for it, spent a month inside

Ken says:
that sucks

Shawty sent 3/27/2009 7:52 AM:
and then when he came out, one of the lads family took a prive court case against him, and sued him for 30,000

Shawty sent 3/27/2009 7:52 AM:
they all got slaps on the wrist, beacuse under the age of 18, your not aware of the consiquences of your actions

Shawty sent 3/27/2009 7:52 AM:
aparently, because their son was now too traumatized to go outside.

Shawty sent 3/27/2009 7:53 AM:
they're lads and they can't be responsible for knowing the difference between right & wrong.

Ken says:
Oh man

Shawty sent 3/27/2009 7:54 AM:
most of the shootings we do have, particulaly in london are all commited by kids under the age of 18

Shawty sent 3/27/2009 7:53 AM:
well at least thats what a politicly correct pshycoligist that the government trusts says anyway

Shawty sent 3/27/2009 7:54 AM:
and there's even been cases in the news of lads as young as 12 found carying loaded hand guns

Shawty sent 3/27/2009 7:55 AM:
it's all political correctness here and political correcness there
and if it's not the PC crowd, it's the Health and safter people

Shawty sent 3/27/2009 7:58 AM:
it's the analy retentitive political correctness & human rights crowd

Shawty sent 3/27/2009 7:59 AM:
and yes they have, they have way too much say in what the government does these days..

Shawty sent 3/27/2009 7:56 AM:
here's one for ya...

Shawty sent 3/27/2009 7:56 AM:
over here, a police officer can be charged, arrested and loose his job for putting a suspects handcuffs on too tight

Shawty sent 3/27/2009 7:57 AM:
how tight is too tight, well too tight is if the suspect says it's too tight

Shawty sent 3/27/2009 7:57 AM:
no guidelines

Shawty sent 3/27/2009 7:58 AM:
now imagine, in the struggle of trying to arrest someone, who's trying to get away, would you pause and go, excuse me sir, are your handcuffs on to tight?

Ken says:
right

Shawty sent 3/27/2009 7:59 AM:
anyway, my whole take on the thing goes somthing like this...

Shawty sent 3/27/2009 8:00 AM:
you wanna break into my house, fine... i'll suffer my consequences AFTER YOU'VE SUFFERED YOURS

Shawty sent 3/27/2009 8:01 AM:
and at 6ft2 in most cases all i usually need to do is stand up and growl at people and they back off anyway

Ken says:
haha

Shawty sent 3/27/2009 8:02 AM:
the law may prevent me keeping a gun in the house, it doesn't however say anything about a baseball bat

Shawty sent 3/27/2009 8:02 AM:
or a lump of 2x4 joist with a nail in the end

Ken says:
haha

Ken says:
What about air rifles or pistols?

Shawty sent 3/27/2009 8:05 AM:
used to be able too....

Shawty sent 3/27/2009 8:06 AM:
then some PC idiot figured that they could do just as much damage, after a 15 year old kid lost his eye

Shawty sent 3/27/2009 8:06 AM:
in a street battle with a rival gang in south london

Ken says:
Poor kid. Who would have thought that a street gang brawl could turn violent?


And we went on to talking about programming. I just thought this personal insite into how it is elsewhere might get some people thinking.

[Delbert]

As Ron White would say--"You can't fix STUPID". Now I understand why the Pilgrims came to this Country. To get away from MORONS. I like your Friend's attitude and how to get around some lame-ass law. Use a Louisville Slugger my Friend and swing for centerfield.
Del

[gnepig]

Gun control in England, yeah right, they are loosing control:

---

(10-30-2009 10:41 PM)gnepig Wrote:  Gun control in England, yeah right, they are loosing control:

More:

[alleydude]

That's a great video. I posted it on the main page. Thanks for sharing it.

[Delbert]

When is the Government gonna understand that when they have control of guns, the criminals have the control of the Government?
Del

[davidbruce]

Fiscally, I'm conservative as hell. Socially, liberal as hell. I believe in the freedoms derived from our constituition even though I personally hate many of the actions and lifestyles afforded under those freedoms. Gun rights? I got my first rifle at age ten as a hand-me-down gift from my father. I spent three (long) years in the Army in a medical battalion. I was on our battalion's rifle and pistol teams each year, though only qualified as sharpshooter, never made expert.

I've owned guns without a break all of my adult life and will continue to own guns. I fully support the traditional interpretation of the 2nd Amendment and if they ever want to take my guns it'll be "over my dead body" etc. etc. etc.

O.K. I'm a gun owner but reject the label of "gun nut".

Now, having said all that, the other day my wife and I were shopping for a suitable .380 auto for her, (leaning towards Bersa Thunda, thanks Del) and on display in the shop was a magazine-fed, 10 round, semi-auto, .50 Caliber, Sniper Rifle. The sole and only purpose of which is to effectively kill people at ranges out to about 2000 yards. I'm a gun owner, supporter of the 2nd amendment, etc. etc. but have to wonder what the hell is wrong in our society when something like that is for sale to the general public. Not questioning the 2nd amendment, not questioning the government, questioning why the hell our society feels that something like that weapon needs to be available. (price $8999.00, with two magazines!)

Anyway, gave me pause for thought.

[alleydude]

I respect your opinion concerning the "sniper rifle", but are their not smaller caliber rifles that are primarily used for target shooting? There is a certain amount of thrill in being able to shoot a gun many hundreds (or even over a thousand) yards with deadly accuracy. Doesn't matter if it's a 22 or a .50 Cal. Because it is the "Bill of Rights", not the "Bill of Needs", we have the pleasure of owning what we want and desire, all in our own personal persuit of happiness.

I have a 450 Marlin lever action that will take down a bear, but I don't ever see myself in a position to shoot a bear, but gawd I love to shoot this thing at the range and feel the raw power that that huge round delivers.

Why would someone need 600 horsepower in a car when that is reaching into race car horsepower? Certainly that much horsepower was only intended for race use? Where in America would that much horsepower be put to it's intended use on the streets? But OOOOH it feels so good to know it's there.

And when you examine the extreme rights view of the 2nd Amendment, the S does H the F, I'd want someone with a .50 Cal on my team, even if I can't afford one.

[davidbruce]

Hey Ken:

We're in full agreement regarding "rights" vs. "needs". I have a truck with 800 lbs torque to pull our 7000 lb 5th wheel. Total overkill but I love it.

The question I posed was strictly philosophical. Yeah, it makes me wonder when there's both a buyer and a seller for something like that .50 caliber.

In the peacetime army when I served in Germany we fired k.d. (known distance) and sure it's really fun to hit the black at 400 yards. I can imagine hitting the black at 2000 yards. (can anyone say "broken shoulder?") Damn, that was fifty years ago!

So not saying the .50 should be banned, only disappointed there's a market.

Same thing with censorship. Probably half or more of the offerings on network and premium satellite television I wouldn't watch if someone paid me. They're crap and insulting. But, that's individual choice and not the business of either the government or any private or public pressure group.

Anyway not on a soapbox, just musing.

[Delbert]

You're gonna find with any Weapon---no matter the type Davidbruce, there will always be a market, be it a small market for many of the items, but a market just the same.
Also, when I was in Service, back in the 70's, there was and still is a Gun that will put the 50 BMG to shame, but just to reload the Ammo for it will cost you around $20-$40 a Round nowadays maybe more.
It is the 20MM Single Shot, Bolt Action. Weighs around 30-40lb.
This Round is the same Round that was used in Phantom F-4s Vulcan Cannons in Nam.
You also gotta remember, that just because there's a Large Caliber Gun out there, there is also the limitations of owning that Gun, and one of them being just the sheer size of it, and the costs of shooting such a Weapon, which in itself limits it's usage.
Never be disapointed that there's a Market for a Weapon. That's the beauty of this Country and the 2nd Amendment.
If you can afford it and you're LEGAL, you're good to go.
That's why Criminals steal Weapons. It's because they don't go by the Laws, can't afford what they shoot, and just don't care who they hurt.

[alleydude]

Ah, you had to mention the Vulcan... That's the gun I worked on in the Navy on the CIWS. Here is a picture of me on my mount on the USS Midway...

   

Won't be seeing one of these at a gun show any time soon...